The Future of Canadian Curling

Kyle Jahns (00:05)
Hi everyone, I'm Kyle Jahns and welcome to the Future of Canadian Curling podcast. So, over the past few weeks, we've discussed some high-level concepts about what the future of Canadian curling can be. We talked about the soul of Canadian curling, and we started to outline four of the critical shifts that we need to address so that we can take on some current challenges in the sports system. So this week we're actually going to start to take a

deeper dive into one of these shifts. And I'd argue it's one of the most important ones we'll discuss in this series because it impacts the biggest part of our community. It's the heartbeat of curling and it's grassroots curling. This week

I'm joined by Curling Canada CEO Nolan Thiessen and Curling Canada's Director of Club Development and Member Services Bobby Ray. And this week we're going to talk about belonging, curling's perceived identity as an affordable sport.

What exactly your curling Canada curler development fees support and why we just need to think beyond the business of curling? So, Nolan Bobby, welcome to the show. Thank you for being here. And Nolan, let's kick things off with the latest chapter that was just released today, where we talk about grassroots curling and belonging and thinking about it more as an experience. Can you summarize what the core of this message is all about?

Nolan Thiessen (01:34)
I think the biggest thing is is, you know, curling is sort of the tool to so much more, right? It's it's a tool for um physical activity, social connection, um, you know, that sense of belonging, sense of purpose, pride in community, nation building, right? I think that's that's the main part of this, right? Is is really trying to work through and and get everyone to to sort of

First, understand what we are actually selling and and you know it's it's funny we have these discussions about rules and and different things, right? And and and people will say, Well, should the rule be this or that? And and I I think those are really important conversations, probably from a competition standpoint, but from a a club standpoint, you know, I Bobby and I have talked about this lots. He says

Does the rule make club curling better? And and that like that's the main part of it, right? It's not it shouldn't be wow, we gotta make this rule because we need more offense on uh on the Thursday night men's league, I think, or I think what we want is um be because it's so much more than just who won and lost that game at at the club.

Kyle Jahns (02:57)
And ultimately what you're getting at is that it's really about the experience itself. And so Bobby, I'm just curious. Like you work very closely with clubs from all across Canada, helping them revamp strategic plans and providing the members services that are essential to helping support curling clubs all across the nation. And in your experience working with these club boards and staff, what do you see as the main reasons for?

People ultimately wanting to join a curling club.

Bobby (03:29)
Yeah, I think the motivation might be different depending if you're asking someone who's already converted to the curling community, they've been playing for a long time, as compared to someone on the outside looking in. When we do work with clubs, we do strategic planning workshops, for example, and one of the first questions we ask them, we say, introduce yourself, tell us about ah your role in the club, how you came to curling. One of the questions is what do you most enjoy about curling?

And we're we're a bit sneaky with this. We're actually writing down their answers as they're speaking them to the group. And we plant them a little bit later in the presentation to, I guess, to make a point. Because what they say to us, I actually have some of the examples in front of me, is when we say, What do you most enjoy about curling? They don't say, I love throwing rocks and sweeping rocks or the double run back and stick to win a game in the extra end, it it comes up. But like 90% of the time they're saying, I enjoy the social impact.

I enjoy the community. I enjoy getting to meet people, the club atmosphere, uh, the the physical aspect of the game. So there's all these things that all these benefits that they're receiving through curling that when they speak to their most favorite part about the game are those things. But uh to expand on that question to people that are on the outside looking in, they don't they don't know that. I think that's why we've relied so heavily in our past on

Curler is bringing new curlers to the club because they need uh someone they trust, someone they're familiar with to bring them into that environment and show them around a little bit. So people are coming to the game based on the merits of what they see on TV. But a lot of our clubs would say that people come for curling, but they stay for the community. They learn something once they get there that is really special and differentiated from other sports.

Kyle Jahns (05:17)
So you bring up an interesting point in regards to how a lot of people who get into curling, it's because they either have a friend who's already in the facility or they have a family member, for example, but that seems to exclude a large number of people who just wouldn't otherwise kind of walk in off the street to be able to to play the game or get introduced. So w do you have any what are some of the the common like strategies, tips, techniques that

You provide clubs to be able to help reach an audience that they wouldn't typically get just through word of mouth.

Bobby (05:51)
Yeah, the the Learn to Curl program has probably been our most successful program over the last decades or so. That could be aimed at adults, an adult learn to curl program. It could be aimed at a youth audience. You could do learn to curl just for doubles curling or just for stick curling or wheelchair curling, even. But the the principle is that it provides an environment for people to learn a relatively technical sport. Like we we know that coming out to curl your first time, it's going to be difficult to have success immediately because it's very technical. It's not unlike

tennis or golf where instruction is very much uh an involved part of the beginning of a of that sporting journey. And it's also low commitment. So we're not asking people without a connection to the inside membership to commit to something for six months. We're saying try this Learn to Curl program for six weeks or eight weeks. And we know that we can't teach them everything but that we'd like to teach them. But we need to balance that with their expectation of how they trial new experiences in their life.

Kyle Jahns (06:49)
And so part of this comes down to um affordability. And this is something that Curling has often kind of created a balance for over the years. And so Nolan, this is something that you addressed in the chapter. And I think you kinda argue that affordability has become Curling's identity in a way. Can you can you ex explain that or refute me?

Nolan Thiessen (07:15)
Well, I I I think with whenever there's pressures, right, I think obviously clubs and the and they're delivering they're delivering these experiences, they they b you know, not to be full economics professor on this, but they they look at sort of the difference between how much things cost and like what is the price elastic elasticity of it. I j I just think I I think if all we are

is the cheapest option, then we're not we're not valuing all those other things that Bobby talked about, of that that sense of belonging and the you know, all of the things that you actually get once you're a part of the system. If all we say is we're cheap, come try it, then that just means as soon as something is cheaper, we're giving them permission to just go try that instead. Um I think

we are naturally affordable as it is. We aren't a sport that we need a hundred thousand dollars worth of equipment to to play, right? and and and even if if you looked at a lot at a lot of clubs across the country, you know, they could increase their fees and they could still be one of the most affordable entertainment options for anybody to to take on, right? So

But just limiting ourselves and saying all we are is the cheapest option in town, I think limits all of the other great things that we are providing. And people pay for experiences, right? I know we talked about that in one of our last um discussions. People will pay for experiences that they feel provide value to them. Um, so I think we just we shouldn't

narrow ourselves down to just one aspect of our sport and say like this is the only reason why people do it 'cause 'cause it's so much more.

Kyle Jahns (09:16)
Bobby, would you would you agree with that? Do you think affordability has become curling's identity? What are you kind of seeing in the day-to-day of uh every grassroots curling club out there?

Bobby (09:28)
I'd say that affordability is part of the identity of a lot of nonprofits. So I might expand beyond curling to that that mentality of I work in a nonprofit organization, therefore I'm not allowed to make profit. It's actually a bit of a misconception in the industry. The the reality of the situation is nonprofits aren't allowed to make profit for for personal sake. So there is no owner.

There is no shareholder that is taking money away from that organization at the end of the year and buying a nicer home or a nicer boat with it. That money stays with the organization and is reinvested. But if a curling club wants to have gold-plated curling rock handles, they could. It just needs to be reinvested there.

Nolan Thiessen (10:10)
Do you know of a club like that, Bobby?

Bobby (10:14)
No, I I think maybe fifty years from now we'll be having a a podcast on that topic.

Nolan Thiessen (10:18)
Okay, great.

Bobby (10:19)
But i is it part of the identity? I I'd say yes across nonprofits. I'd also be specific in saying it's part of the way that we see ourselves. I'd I'd say that's the kind of the truest definition of identity. I don't think it's how the outside people looking in see us. I don't hear that. my predecessor was famous for saying that new curlers don't know that they're supposed to be cheap. So it's really only

Once you get on the inside that we create this culture expectation that everything is as low cost as possible. But w back to the Learn to Curl program, we we coach clubs to sell that at a higher price than they might be they might feel comfortable because they might be surprised what people would pay for it for six weeks of instruction. They're gonna pay $150, $200, $250, which might be equivalent to a membership they're otherwise selling for the year.

But the new person doesn't know what to expect. There is no precedent and they are a bit of a a clean slate.

Kyle Jahns (11:13)
And and that kinda leads me to an interesting question because if you're valuing um a learn to curl at what the same price of maybe some memberships are, it opens up a larger discussion about how much a membership should actually be. And this is something that Nolan and I talked about a little bit in the previous week.

I grew up in Manitoba and leak fees were cheap by standard. I didn't know that at the time. That was just the fee that I paid. And then I moved out to Ottawa area, where all of a sudden I was in for a not a rude awakening, but it was it was a lot more than what I was used to paying for. But I still paid it because I want

The community, I want that aspects that have all the good positive things that curling brings into my life. And so it wasn't a deterrent to me. So how do you gauge these conversations with clubs and facilities that might be hesitant to up their fees over time in order to provide more investment that could go back into the club?

Bobby (12:15)
I think that's the beauty of a network and one of the roles that Curling Canada and our provincial territorial associations play is they create networks of organizations and clubs so that they can share those stories and experiences. So I certainly know of clubs that have increased the price of their offering, their membership or their curling experience, and have increased participation almost immediately.

I I might have at the time softened it by saying, hey, put the price up a little bit, maybe you'll lose a few people, but the extra cost will cover this until people come back around and it grows uh again in a couple years. But

Kyle Jahns (12:48)
So it actually grew the membership.

Bobby (12:51)
yeah, participation will grow right away because they're they're seeing an immediate value addition for the money that they're paying. I I know too many clubs that, for example, in a youth program are saying, this must be.

$80 a year, because that's what it has always been. And to keep it there, there is no more trophy at the end of the year. There is no pizza party. There is no hot chocolate and cookies. But they're stripping away everything that is remarkable remarkable about that program. Everything that when I pack my kids into the car and they're sitting in the backseat and I Hey, hey, how did curling go? They're they're talking about the cookies and the hot chocolate, and you take that away, the story disappears, the value proposition is gone. So you you can't go so far as to

cut into the story that people tell themselves and others.

Kyle Jahns (13:38)
kind of leads me into a different topic, but also in regards to investment in curling and investment in the future. And it's the curler development fee, a curling Canada's development fee, a $5 fee that every registered curler pays that goes back into the system. And I think sometimes there's a misconception that maybe th these funds are supporting like either a play-down system or high performance curling. And I think people don't necessarily

see what they're getting back from that initial investment. Can you take me through the curler development fee and and what exactly it's doing to support the curling system in Canada?

Bobby (14:22)
The curling development fee funds my team's entire operation. It doesn't uh make its way over to championship events or high performance. So perhaps there's a a misunderstanding in the system there. We're very lucky that it doesn't have to. Other national sport organizations may have to fund those kind of things in those ways, but we receive government funding, we receive profits from our our fans that visit those experiences. And otherwise, we're very fortunate that.

When we collect curling development fee from clubs and associations, it gets reinvested directly into what they need at scale. I I think that's probably an important point is that there are simply things that we can do better together that we can do once and share, uh as opposed to it happening 13 times over in different provinces and territories or 850 times over in a club. We we all need training for our ace technicians, for our coaches.

for the business of curling for our board members. We all need youth programs. We all need better quality ICE and best practices. Those can be developed through the curling development fee and then spread around. So it's it's actually a very effective way of using the system's uh dollar to produce the things that we all need.

Kyle Jahns (15:38)
So you had mentioned the business of curling. And Nolan, you talk about the business of curling in in this latest chapter, but how we need to challenge each other to look beyond what we beyond the business of curling, that we're not in the curling business, we're in the building business of experiences. Um walk me through walk me through what exactly that means and what you hope people will get out of that.

Nolan Thiessen (16:08)
Well, I mean, y y take take me for example. I'm I'm a club member and I go and I play my game on on Thursday nights, but then I also go sit with my teammates and I sit with other people from the club and I socialize. Like it's more of a social connection piece, right? Like and that's where

To me, we're selling the full experience. My membership fee is not just for my games that I play and then everything else is free. It's all part of the experience that I'm that I'm paying for in my mind, right? Because if I'm my membership fee should also help cover, you know, employees to run the bar and the ice maker that runs the club and all of those other things, right? It's not just me renting

a piece of ice and and uh right I I'm I'm not scraping and pebbling. I'm I'm not pouring any drinks. I'm not I'm not making any food for anybody. Um so it's all a part of the experience that I that I look at that that I'm purchasing and I think um I think that the best run clubs or the the one the most successful run clubs I should say, not just the best, the most successful run clubs are the ones that look at it that way.

They look at the whole user experience, right? From the time they they try to sign up through the time they leave the door every week, they try to affect each piece of that experience in a positive way. Um and and that's really what what we're selling here so much more than just the eight ends of of curling or you know, if we make some shots or if we don't make some shots, five ends of curling.

Kyle Jahns (17:57)
So I'm usually on that end. so you you had mentioned like all these services, like how a club can be ran, and Bobby, I think sometimes when it's a c a board of volunteers, sometimes trying to run it like a business can be overbearing. It can be very difficult. And so I think this is where the investment portion comes in. And one of those investments that I think

people need to be more more aware of right now is the association of curling professionals.

Bobby (18:33)
that this is new to us, but there is certainly precedence for it in other sport. if you register yourself or your kids for gymnastics or skiing or tennis or golf or dance, uh you're coming into experience that is led by someone who is trained, who's paid to do the work that they do, uh, and so on. And we we think that as part of this

Philosophy that if we can demonstrate more value, that people would be more likely to pay more and tell other people about it and bring more connections through the door, that curling professionals are at the center of that. And we we're quite literal about the term professionals, that this person does this for pay. in the best case scenario, they do this as their career so that they're not working at a desk or elsewhere during the day. They they wake up, they go to the curling club.

They put in an effort to make the curling experience better so that it is a more desirable experience. And what we say about a curling professional fully matured, this idea fully matured, won't cost a club any money because that person will be so good at their job that they will expand the size of the pie. And it will be their responsibility to return, to generate a return on investment for the work that they create. It's

It's what happens in the private sector. No private company hires an employee for fun or for decoration. There is always a business case, whether it's direct or indirect, that if I hire this person and they do this work, that we will have more money or better service to to maintain a revenue at the end of the day. So it's it's the business of curling at the most mature state applied to curling. And that's kind of what we're dipping our toes into now.

Kyle Jahns (20:17)
And so we're I think maybe two or three years into the training portion, is that correct?

Bobby (20:23)
Yeah, it started as a pilot program, so we're kind of quietly coming out of that. We've decided that it's it's something we want to do permanently and long term. So we have about a hundred members, you could call them loosely, but we're just starting to get into the process of charging annual dues and being able to provide value for those fees and offer professional development beyond the core training they've received. But it is really exciting.

Kyle Jahns (20:48)
And are there st do you have any stories or accounts of how they've been functioning in in curling clubs across Canada and the value that they've been able to bring?

Bobby (20:57)
I'd say it's probably a little bit early still, but I'd also say that we had people that were essentially acting as curling professionals before the association even existed. And so we can draw on their stories and expect that.

other people can can do that kind of work. So we've had really successful people that teach curling, that manage curling clubs. And because of how effective they were, they've become some of the best operated clubs. There are some of our our most high volume membership clubs. And now they're mentoring other people. And I would say those people um that didn't have this before, but they're do they're playing that role anyways. They say, gee, I wish I had this 10, 20, 30, 30 years ago when I was starting, because it's it's all been self-taught for me and now nobody else would have to go through that.

Again.

Kyle Jahns (21:43)
And ultimately, I think this all falls on a feeling of belonging. And Nolan, you talk about this walking into any club and and feeling like home. And I think that's a feeling that a lot of established curlers have. But the challenge with that is someone who doesn't have that connection, walking into the sport or walking into a club for the first time, they might not be able to get that experience or that feeling of of

belonging. So can you you you explain your your thoughts on that and how maybe we go about um ensuring that people who are new to the club are finding those valued experiences that we had because we had that connection to the curling before.

Nolan Thiessen (22:31)
Yeah, it's I mean, I look at it as sort of two pieces. One is what I just talked about earlier, where like if you look at the whole customer experience, um, so the more that you pay attention to those and and pay attention to those minor details, I think people will see not just value in it, but also, you know, the desire to come back and have those experiences again. But then it's also the sort of it takes a village aspect of you know

individual club members, you know, thinking back to the experiences that they've had over their over their lives in our sport and trying to do those as well, right? Like be welcoming to people. ah you know, give people, you know, to Bobby's point earlier, w it's a it looks a lot or it's a lot harder than it looks on television. So the people who walk in and think, I'm gonna be perfect, right? Be able to support them.

And be able to um, you know, when they when they go, wow, that was way harder than I thought, say, yeah, and then help them along to keep, you know, so that they stay and and you know, not just, hey, you're not doing it right, and that's not how we do things here, right? You know, be welcoming to somebody and and acknowledge where they are on their journey. Um, but then I also look at sort of the, you know, I go back to those experiences piece and

This is one that I'm I I know I have a position on as as Nolan Tyson, not not necessarily as Curling Canada CEO or Curling Canada specific position, but um like I think every club in the country should have some sort of either midway hack or halfway house to be able to make the experience better for people.

Right. And and and that could be anyone. That could be somebody who's still learning how to slide and can barely get to the back T line. For them to just be able to slide it halfway down the ice and hit the house is a lot easier than the full way. And and I looked at it with you know, when I s watched my son take up curling last year and and thinking to myself, you know, when I was twelve, I wasn't playing on a diamond the same size as I did when I played college baseball. So why is

My 12-year-old son playing on a curling sheet the same size as I played in the Briar. I'm like, man, maybe we gotta we gotta think bigger picture about this type of stuff, right? So those are the types of things like making the user experience good, trying to give them some early wins, give them some, you know, not feel like this uphill battle that it's I'm never gonna be able to make a shot and nobody wants me here.

And then and then they leave, right? Make them feel welcome, give them some success, make them feel a part of something bigger, and then and then watch how it grows from there.

Kyle Jahns (25:38)
So you bring up a really good point, Nolan and Bobby. It's something that I'm I'm curious to learn your thoughts and perspective of. And it draws from my own personal experience as well of growing up and being like, hey, curling looks interesting, but like you know, friends would tell me that curling looks interesting. How can I get involved? And it's like, well, you gotta sign up for 24 month or 24-week league, basically, from October.

To March, because there wasn't really Learn to Curls then. And instantly that's almost just a turnoff. And when I look at how we function in society today, and you had sent some notes over earlier, and you had touched on these points about like our cell phones capturing one or two hours of our day every day and our attention. We're competing against all these other different activities and even just staying in. Like I feel like trying to get

People interested in curling through the traditional means is a little outdated. I really like the idea of low commitment, short sessions, and getting people interested and at least on the ice experiencing the game quickly, but also in a non-committal way. Have you seen any clubs in Canada who are developing these types of programs that might

target a non-traditional curling audience, but then also might serve as like a funnel to bring them into the club.

Bobby (27:14)
Yeah, it might be the biggest trend afoot right now is to develop these opportunities to try curling or like you said kind of accommodate different people's schedules or different people's perceived level of commitment to something. 'Cause 'cause people just don't know that they like curling yet. They haven't had the opportunity to try it. And psychologically they want to know that there's an opportunity to leave, uh, not too far down the journey if it's not something that's for them and curling isn't for everyone.

And so some clubs have been quite innovative in that sense. A lot of clubs offer two or three distinct seasons, which doesn't have to feel different for someone that wants to be there for six months. They can just check three boxes and say, I'm signing up for part one, part two, part three. But it does provide an opportunity for someone to to come and to go at at their will as they're kind of experiencing curling. And to your point, like people's attention span a is a big thing.

myself included, I I don't have the attention span to watch a movie anymore. I just can't sit down for two to three hours. But the funny thing is you'll you'll sit down and you'll binge twelve episodes of a TV show at 30 minutes each, or you'll scroll through TikTok for the same amount of time. It's just people need to have their attention recaptured every once in a while. And my own club went through this. They they feared that if we allowed people to leave a third or two-thirds of the way into the season that they'd go.

Part one is if somebody wants to go, let them go. We're not holding anyone here against their will. That's not the business we're in. But also how many people would come because they have the opportunity to only commit to six or eight weeks and then renew and then renew and then renew. And they essentially end up end up binge consuming curling. So that's just playing on how people's brain is working today. And it works in a lot of situations.

Kyle Jahns (29:07)
Think there's also examples of using that format where you sign up for six weeks at a time. You can partner with like a a local brewery or have like a you know a free drink ticket that comes with it for after the game to go upstairs to the bar. Um, and I think there's elements of of fun that can really be worked into it. Like I'm I'm not saying that curling needs to change at the grassroots level entirely, where like the traditional

league structure of eight ends being played and competitive is there. But I think there's still more of an opportunity for clubs to be able to invest in programs that focus on fun, play some music in the background, let them have an experience on the ice and and partake in it that way, which I just think that there's so much value to be added there that you might not otherwise get from a traditional league.

Bobby (30:06)
It's a really important value. So if we go back to these workshops we do with clubs to develop their strategic plan and really simply said a strategic plan just kind of tells people what you think your curling club looks like in the future. And one of the first exercises to create values, and one of them is fun and one of them is flexibility. So to the two things we just spoke about is that those those words and a definition of those words for that club are

with them in every meeting and in every decision they make so that those words accompany those decisions. And I think that's really important. I I did want to say something about um you were talking about the six-week programs or kind of those chopped up just to tie that back to affordability. I think it also creates an a natural payment plan, which is really important. Like I I like to say that you know I can afford my rent. I I rent an apartment, let's let's say that it's

$2,000 a month, I can afford that. But if I was asked to pay that on October 1st for the whole year, I can't afford that. So there there is reality of how much do we charge, but how do we charge for it? How often do we charge for it? There's there's a natural rhythm to where people generate revenue in their lives and then expend it for the things that they want.

Kyle Jahns (31:21)
last I think we were gonna talk about the price of belonging because obviously the affordability still matters, but how do we make the case for, I guess, greater value without pricing people out? Like how do we ensure that we are still able to provide a curling experience for those who genuinely might not be able to afford?

Nolan Thiessen (31:46)
Well, one of the things I would say would be is you don't do this overnight, right? Like I think you gotta think longer term about it and say, you know, it what one, it will take mapping out the whole customer experience. And then two, it will take planning on how you want to what you want to do to improve that customer experience. And then three is sort of how to pay for it. And if that's through fees, if that's through grant funding, if that's through

you know, however they approach that, but I think it's just a more longer term, future focused kind of analysis of it.

You can have your super high end and you can have your lower end, or certain clubs in a region can be the more higher end option, and other ones are the, you know, the more uh affordably priced um option. You see that in a lot of different um industries, right? There's there's various different offerings for golf clubs, there's various different offerings for Italian food or whatever, right? And and then they're all just they provide a

Just sort of a different level of experience and you know what you're paying for. I think that that's that's probably the way I would look at it.

Kyle Jahns (32:57)
Bobby this is a bit of a hypothetical, but if you could ask every curling facility in Canada to change one thing about how it recruits or retains memberships, what would it be?

Bobby (33:09)
I think it's probably just the accumulation of everything we've talked about is to have some confidence in our ability to demonstrate value to the people that are playing the game. And so we don't sell ourselves on this is the cheapest or this is the most affordable. I think we are the best option within reason to spend your recreational time and money. And I think that starts at the very first experience that someone has with the curling club.

That might even be before they arrive to the facility. That might be online through social media or through the website or through word of mouth with people that have had that experience already. But certainly when they get to the facility, it needs to leave a mark on them. It needs to leave them saying, Wow, that was fun and I want to go back. Because it doesn't matter how low price the the experience was, if it doesn't leave them wanting to come back for more, then the job hasn't been completed.

So I think it's maybe shifting to that mindset of how do we create something so remarkable that people are gonna take a picture, they're gonna post it on social media, they're gonna tell three friends about it, and they're gonna be back next week and we can expand a relationship with that potential curler from there that they need to be left wanting more.

I think you could start small. Like me personally, when I managed a club, we started with a with a bond spiel. And over a number of years we doubled the price of that bond spiel and we tripled the amount of participation in it because it became so fun. People couldn't believe how much fun it was to uh have music on the ice, to have a live band every night, to be fed every meal, to have all these benefits included, even though it cost more. They

they came back and they told other people and and the event filled up. From there we just expanded that same philosophy to other aspects of our business.

Kyle Jahns (34:57)
Bobby, if someone's listening to this and they want to learn more about how to improve their club strategy, um, what kind of services, programs, how can how can they reach you basically and and what kind of work can they do with you personally to be able to help put some of these plans into action?

Bobby (35:19)
Yeah, we we'd say that they should start with their member association first. we we're a network of organizations and people that are working together in in different ways to make the sport more successful. So if they're in a province or a territory with association, they go there. If they're if we get called into that conversation, we're happy to help. The I mean, the easiest way for us to get to people is we host events. So we host business of curling symposiums because we can we can put in an effort one weekend and we can fill the room with

hundreds of people to get the message across. That the nice thing there is that they're not just hearing from Bobby, they're hearing from their peers. And we try to create space for networking and to put real active people that are on the ground level on the stage to share their stories. The last couple of years we've been doing this innovation fair kind of concept. So people get like two or three minutes to pitch their wildest innovation of of recent. And they're really fun. So learning from your peers, learning from

experts learning from your association leadership all in one place is most effective. Understanding that not everyone can get there or spend the time and money away for a weekend. Certainly they they could bring us directly to their club. We do that. We've provided sort of direct strategic planning workshops with clubs. We get on a phone call or a video chat or answer emails to to help out. So definitely don't hesitate because it is it is our job and we really enjoy doing it.

Kyle Jahns (36:49)
I I must know what's the wildest innovation that you've that's been pitched?

Bobby (36:54)
Yeah, I'm trying to think of like a previous winner. Like we'll we'll dress up the the judges in robes with gavels and they make judgments and it's all a pretty fun experience. I think one had like the the three wheeler bond spiel, like they're saying, like it's always you're trying to sign up for a bond spiel, but you're always one person short. So they created this format where it was just three people curling on a team. I remember that being pretty fun. Um

I think there's others we probably just can't talk about on the pod, but I'll get back to you later on that.

Kyle Jahns (37:29)
Nolan, what's some the most important thing that you would like someone to come away from after listening to this and reading your chapter?

Nolan Thiessen (37:37)
I just I well, I would say two things from from just an average person, I would just say really really take a look at what is what is the value, like what is the experience that you want to have. And I think from you know, a lot of those club members um and and club leaders across the country, I would say

Take a step back and look at your whole customer experience and see if there's little things that you can do every year to improve that experience. Um, right. Like I I don't think these these changes, these fixes, these improvements, uh, you know, are are not it's not a magic wand and you can just snap your fingers and everything's gonna be changed. It's gonna take some planning, it's gonna take some attention to detail, but um, you know, to be able to sit there and go, look, this is

We're gonna improve this this year and this two years from now and this two years from now. I think you're setting your club up for for success in the future. yeah, those those would be the two biggest ones for me.

Kyle Jahns (38:45)
And Bobby, what about you? What's uh what would be the one key thing or two key things that you hoped someone would get out of this conversation today?

Bobby (38:53)
I just want to build on what Nolan just said because I I think that doing that, but also involving everyone in your local curling community is really important. I think that it is natural for us to resist maybe being told what we ought to do or how we ought to think. But if you um engage people in this conversation. I think I think Nolan is doing that right now at a national level, but then it needs to filter down to the local level and having conversations with your club members to say what is a fun

valuable curling experience look like to you, build that with them and then investigate the price. I think they're gonna be more willing to say, yeah, I'd pay a little bit more for that because it's exactly what I asked for.

Kyle Jahns (39:34)
Excellent. Thank you both for your time today. I really appreciate it. And next week we're going to be talking about the other spectrum of curling in Canada. And we're going to be talking high performance and some of the critical shifts that we can look at in that aspect of the sport. Until then, we'll see you next week.